{"id":1758,"date":"2014-11-17T08:00:21","date_gmt":"2014-11-17T08:00:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/damesnet.com\/?p=1758"},"modified":"2014-11-16T21:26:46","modified_gmt":"2014-11-16T21:26:46","slug":"women-of-an-uncertain-age-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/damesnet.com\/?p=1758","title":{"rendered":"Women of an Uncertain Age"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"FlipMaggie<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n

Why is so much comedy so male dominated? Damesnet caught up with Flip Webster and Maggie Bourgein as they prepare for their show Women of an Uncertain Age<\/em> at London\u2019s Canal Caf\u00e9 Theatre<\/a>\u00a0 to explore the issues.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Damesnet: How did you get started on your shows?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Maggie<\/strong>: Well, I live in Devon and Flip comes down in the summer quite a lot. We thought we might entertain ourselves by doing a serious piece about me at home being a carer \u2014 as I was then \u2014 but we just couldn\u2019t get past trying to make laughs. We ended up with the idea of me being a Kylie Minogue look-alike in gay clubs, so we decided we might as well write some sketches.<\/p>\n

Flip<\/strong>: So we did a scratch event at the Bike Shed, in Exeter \u2013 20 minutes and five sketches. And it went really well. There are a lot students in Exeter, so we were a bit nervous because we thought our stuff would only appeal to women of our age but as it turned out the young male students, as well as the female students, and every other age group, seemed to appreciate it, and in fact it was the young guys who encouraged us to go on. People relate to it on different levels. Young people like seeing old people behaving badly, and as one of them said, \u2018We\u2019ve all got mothers and grandmothers. We\u2019re just not used to seeing them in that way.\u2019<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: The impetus for doing Women of an Uncertain Age<\/em> is that we had a five-star review this year. So we thought we should build on that. It gave us the confidence we were doing it right.<\/p>\n

D: How does mainstream comedy differ from what you\u2019re doing? <\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: It\u2019s getting better as regards female comedy protagonists. Miranda Hart\u2019s a good example of that, and the response to her goes to show that women were looking for something they could relate to a bit more on TV.<\/p>\n

But largely it\u2019s male dominated and it\u2019s young men. Everyone thinks of the sketch show as a young person\u2019s sport. In fact Stephen Fry said (a long time ago now \u2014 maybe he\u2019s changed his mind): \u2018Women aren\u2019t funny.\u2019 He also said sketch shows should only be done by young people. Well, he\u2019s obviously got a very narrow idea of what\u2019s funny and that\u2019s reflected in the sort of comedy that we\u2019ve had. It\u2019s very Oxbridge-based. BBC 4 radio comedy used to recruit Oxbridge graduates for their producers, and if they don\u2019t think you\u2019re funny, then you\u2019re not funny.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: There is the example of French and Saunders, of course, but once the BBC found them they didn\u2019t bother to look for any other women for about 20 years.<\/p>\n

D: I\u2019m sick of these panel shows in which the males gather together in their maleness, Oxbridge or not, and everything else is other. <\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: It\u2019s quite aggressive. It looks like there\u2019s camaraderie, but there\u2019s fierce competition between them. I\u2019ve got a friend who\u2019s been to the BBC comedy awards and I said \u2018Oh, I\u2019d love to go.\u2019 \u2018You wouldn\u2019t,\u2019 she said. \u2018It\u2019s like a bitch-fest. The atmosphere is really horrible.\u2019 And I think this idea of Danny Cohen, who\u2019s the guy from the BBC, saying \u2018We\u2019re going to have at least one woman on every panel show.\u2019 \u2014 well, good try, but women don\u2019t want to be on those kinds of shows. I don\u2019t think that, per se, that [panel show] attitude is completely wrong, but it can get quite wearing. I just feel a bit battered by the end of, say, Mock the Week<\/em>. Women differ from men in some of the things they find funny as well as the context and delivery. If you pay your license fee, you should be catered for.<\/p>\n

There are some really feisty comediennes out there, though, and they are making a lot of good points. Joan Rivers was hard and in-yer-face, but at least her material related to things that we can identify with.<\/p>\n

D: Are there any things that you would consider off-limits? What I\u2019m thinking about is the way Joan Rivers\u2019s comedy focused on facelifts and droopy boobs. Does this type of comedy actually give other people a stick to beat us with?<\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: Well, we do take the mick out of ourselves as well, and we do take the mick out of other women, and we sometimes use stereotypes to do that.<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: We\u2019ve got characters called Fee and Maggs, who are ladies who lunch and they\u2019re worrying about Botox and so on. When we first did their hip-hop sketch, somebody said to us. \u2018You\u2019ve got to be careful about women of a certain age and how ridiculous they look.\u2019 Interestingly, we have changed the thrust of that sketch, but we feel it\u2019s OK to take the mickey out of them because they behave ridiculously. When we took on our PR person, who is a young woman, she said that sketch takes the mickey out of young people too. I think that\u2019s why our stuff works on different levels. And I think it\u2019s OK if you go away and think afterwards, \u2018Oh, I don\u2019t think I should have laughed at that,\u2019 and you might have to examine why. I think you have to be able to laugh at yourself, otherwise you\u2019re giving critics ammunition for having a go at you.<\/p>\n

D: It\u2019s just occurred to me that male comedians don\u2019t do that. They don\u2019t talk about their prostates and baldness.<\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: It\u2019s interesting, isn\u2019t it? I think we do it because we know men don\u2019t like it. Men can sit around drinking beer, swearing, farting, scratching their balls, and then the moment someone mentions periods, it\u2019s like \u2018Uuurrghh!\u2019<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: Perhaps talking about those things would take away their masculinity, or power or sexiness?<\/p>\n

D: How do you choose the topics for your comedy?<\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: We\u2019ve got a long list of topics. We want to do something about older children living at home. And being a grandmother: years ago, you would see your grandchildren every so often, but now, if you\u2019re unlucky, you could be a carer five days a week. All those issues don\u2019t get addressed in comedy. We also do a bit of social comment \u2014 generally, not just in relation to women. We\u2019ve got one sketch about an unemployed older person being visited by someone from the Department of Work and Pensions, which is funny, but it\u2019s a bit darker as well.<\/p>\n

D: How do the responses vary according to the venues you\u2019ve performed in?<\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: In some places we\u2019ve felt that the audience didn\u2019t like the ruder stuff. But sometimes when you think that you didn\u2019t get such a good reaction, people come up to you afterwards and tell you how fantastic it was. People may have been smiling all the way through, but not really laughing out loud because they\u2019ve felt a bit restrained.<\/p>\n

We had a sketch about internet dating that felt a bit smutty the first time we did it. We think that was down to the running order, but we\u2019ve taken it out for now.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: I think it\u2019s down to the performance. Quite a well-known comedy actress did one of our close-to-the-mark sketches and she appeared to be enjoying it so it became . . . not very nice . . . whereas the way Maggie does it makes the audience feel a little bit safer. They can laugh Maggie\u2019s predicament as well as at what is actually going on.<\/p>\n

D: So do you tread carefully in relation to people\u2019s entrenched attitudes to older women\u2019s sexuality?<\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: We won\u2019t have any truck with that! If you\u2019re still having sex when you get to our age, you\u2019ll be saying, \u2018Yay, look, that\u2019s being mentioned on stage\u2019.<\/p>\n

When we went to Edinburgh, we targeted the audiences of shows like Nicholas Parsons and Paul Merton, an older group (as there was so much on offer for young people) . Then we found that the people who really seemed to appreciate it were middle-aged couples. The women were not only saying \u2018It\u2019s great that you\u2019re dealing with issues that are pertinent to us,\u2019, but the husbands could also understand where their wives were coming from. Some of the older men were the biggest reactors in the audience. We don\u2019t knock men at all. That would just be cheap laughs.<\/p>\n

D: How has your approach evolved since you started?<\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: On one hand, you\u2019ll have an idea and then start writing. And then there\u2019ll be something in particular that we\u2019ll be laughing at, and then we\u2019ll go \u2018Oh, actually . . . \u2018 We have to try to interpret, to think a bit more deeply about what we\u2019re going to say, that we\u2019re not saying something un-PC.<\/p>\n

But that\u2019s a difficult one: when you\u2019ve got characters who need to say something that\u2019s un-PC, they should be allowed to. You\u2019re portraying that character, not saying that that is your viewpoint. You have to see how things go down with an audience; ask your friends and people in the business.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: We are constantly honing our material, tweaking the dialogue to get better laughs, and to incorporate topical references.<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: And we change the running order quite a bit, which in itself is a challenge. Some sketches you can\u2019t put back to back because there just isn\u2019t time for the costume changes. We\u2019ve got some sound sketches to help with the changes; one features Dame Jenni Murray.<\/p>\n

D: Do you foresee the material changing as you get progress?<\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: We\u2019d like to branch out into radio and television. We\u2019d like to tour it. We\u2019re playing to small audiences but they really appreciate it, and we think more people should have access to this sort of show.<\/p>\n

We don\u2019t just deal with issues that affect our age, it\u2019s also observations of the age we live in. There\u2019s a whole wealth of material out there to be farmed.<\/p>\n

D: Do online channels offer you more scope for that sort of thing?<\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: Maybe. At the moment the impetus from the BBC is really using that as a way to keep young people interested. They tend not to watch real-time TV now. They\u2019re using the internet, and watching DVDs and box-sets. If something works online it often transfers to BBC 3. We did actually get interviewed by a BBC 3 producer last year, but he was interested in an aspect of our show that we weren\u2019t interested in pursuing.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: But the only channels that seem to do sketch comedy are Channel 4 and the BBC. Sky does a lot of programmes for older women, but they tend to be more narrative, like Stella<\/em> or Trollied<\/em>. They say is that if someone turns on the television and there\u2019s a sketch on and they don\u2019t like it, they\u2019ll turn off, whereas if it\u2019s narrative they might listen a bit longer and get sucked in.<\/p>\n

The BBC is a publicly funded organisation so we should be equally represented there. But where is the sketch comedy for us? There are some sitcoms that appeal maybe across the board. Bonkers<\/em> came the nearest, though I could relate more to Pat and Cabbage. <\/em>That didn\u2019t really work with the audience, apparently and they decided not to commission a second series. It\u2019s a shame when that happens because they go \u2019Well, no one wants to see comedy with older women in it.\u2019 A lot of the stuff that young men have done has been rubbish at the beginning, but they\u2019ve made another series and let it run its course until it worked. Jennifer Saunders said the BBC did this with French and Saunders.<\/p>\n

D: Who are your influences? You\u2019ve mentioned French and Saunders.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: Well, we\u2019re older than French and Saunders so our influences go back further: Beryl Reid, Dora Bryan, Lucille Ball, and then Morecambe and Wise, Tommy Cooper, Dick Emery, Stanley Baxter. Some of French and Saunders I didn\u2019t used to find funny, actually. A lot of it was, but a lot of it I found a bit lazy, to be honest. They might actually admit that sometimes they were bereft of ideas and came up with something because they had a deadline. There was Ab Fab<\/em> \u2014 that was women behaving badly and they were brilliant.<\/p>\n

We like things with intelligent writing, like the Judi Dench and Geoffrey Palmer series, As Time Goes By<\/em>, and One Foot in the Grave<\/em>. If you had to compare us, we are more Wood and Walters.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: We\u2019ve got ideas for sitcoms, but when you\u2019re working on them, you do feel contrivance coming in. Sketches feel more organic \u2014 you\u2019re not having to set up a car crash, or several strands that meet. It\u2019s compact and linear.<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: It\u2019s easier \u2014 that\u2019s what she\u2019s trying to say.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: But we keep having to work through them to find a natural ending.<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: We work hard on our endings because so often you see sketches that end limply, so we try to make the pay-off as good as what\u2019s gone before.<\/p>\n

D: Are sketches easier when there\u2019s just the two of you? Do you need a certain level of support to sustain a sitcom?<\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: You do, actually. I think one of the reasons Miranda Hart isn\u2019t writing any more is because the pressure on her to write a whole series was huge. She could have brought in other writers, but it would have changed her particular thing. I\u2019m sure there are loads of writers who\u2019ve had ideas about things that she could do. In fact someone I know knows her, and I sent one of my ideas over, only I never got a reply . . . because I\u2019m sure she\u2019s probably inundated.<\/p>\n

D: What is your method of collaboration?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: We tend to start writing on our own, or if Maggie\u2019s particularly interested in something, or if I am, we\u2019d say, \u2018Well, you go and start on that, and I\u2019ll go and start on mine.<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: For example, I\u2019ve never had kids, and we want a sketch about a mother and a teenage daughter, but I wouldn\u2019t feel confident in writing that.<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: Well, I keep thinking about it as two songs: one\u2019s a rap song and one\u2019s something else. But I need to sit down and think whether that will work. It might just be a kind of sketch. Or they might swap songs. And then you\u2019ll notice something relevant to it.<\/p>\n

M<\/strong>: Yes, we\u2019ll be eating somewhere and I\u2019ll observe a teenager, so you might say, \u2018Well that\u2019s where we could get that in.\u2019<\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: But then we usually finish the sketches off together. Because you\u2019re bouncing off each other then. We\u2019re not very good at being motivated on our own, so it doesn\u2019t take off until we\u2019re back together . . .<\/p>\n

D: Is the Canal Caf\u00e9 Theatre a new departure for you?<\/strong><\/p>\n

F<\/strong>: Yes. We\u2019ve tended just to do festivals. It can be a bit intimidating doing something in London because Londoners like to think they\u2019re much more sophisticated than everybody else, but our opinion is that the reaction we\u2019ve had from the audience is the most important thing. What I\u2019d say to London audiences is, don\u2019t be patronising. And, well, we think we\u2019re funny and people ought to come and see our show because audiences who have done appreciate it and there is nothing else like it out there.<\/p>\n

Find out more about Flip and Maggie<\/a>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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